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Designed to send investigators off the path of evidence, or was it something just political that they were just trying to deal with the political problem? why is it that the president went to such levels to try and put this information out that was not true about the meeting. >> ben whitis, it seems like the president's lawyers are really concerned that their clients will per injury himself, number one. so what's the game theory if you are on mueller's side? what is mueller's next step? >> so i think your earlier question, whether this is an elaborate game of chicken, you are on to something. ...

Writing. we know that mueller has said some of the questions can be in writing. again they don't want him to have to answer questions about his time in office. so this continues to go back and forth. what's the outcome going to be? i spoke with rudy giuliani today. he said it will be a legitimate offer to find a way to do an interview. it won't be a refusal. so he is trying to stress that negotiations are still open, but katy, increasingly it seems like the two sides of deadlocked. >> no doubt about that. kristin, you are staying with us. so hold on. michael schmidt and ben whitis, thank you v...

Opportunity to answer questions. and if the president doesn't want to, he'll just move on and finish the investigation without talking to him. the other possibility is that he actually really needs the president's input on these questions in order to resolve this responsibly, in which case i think at this point you will see a subpoena very quickly because clearly at this point i don't think the president's lawyers, a reasonable observer would say they were negotiating in good faith at this point. so at this point, if you are looking to -- that you really need the interview, you have to move fo...

Path for answering questions people familiar with the matter said. joining me on the phone, one of the reporters on that by-line. michael schmidt of "the new york times." also kristen welker. and senior fellow and govens studings at the brookings institution, ben whitis, an msnbc legal analyst and editor and chief of "lawfare." michael schmidt, let's start with you. i want to read a portion from your article. by making another counterproposal after months of promises they were weeks away from deciding about an interview, mr. trump's lawyers run the risk that mr. mueller could conclude they are...

Similar documents, many people in government called him a traitor and he is on the run from the u.s. government ever since. that is how highly sensitive many people believe the sources and methods are to this memo that was used to make this memo. joining me is ben whitis, editor of la fair and an msnbc legal analyst. ben, i know you've been following this as closely as anybody. and frankly the last half hour we've been reading excerpts of what is a just released transcript of the house intel committee essentially debating amongst themselves this memo questioning devin nun he es and of the reve...