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And, you know, something that's really telling about both the o'terrell opinion and the berman opinion, as joyce said, the berman opinion was very strai t straightforward. no way manafort could win that. and as renato said, this was the right call also in the cohen case. yet, both of these judges were extremely comprehensive and thorough. this 24-page opinion, as you say, and o'terra saying there's an indictment likely. it's the president's attorney. there's real consciousness on the part of both of these judges that could what otherwise look like pretty pedestrian matters are, in fact, really...

That's the text. i think an indictment is coming. something that's really telling about both opinions, as joyce says, the berman opinion was very straightforward. this was the right call also in the cohen case. you had both of these judges extremely comprehensive and thorough. there's real consciousness on the part of both these judges that what could otherwise look like pretty pedestrian matters are in fact really freighted with history almost but certainly consequence because of the trump overlay. >> did it read the same to you, joyce? >> it did. i think harry's analysis is exactly right. ne...