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General ebbed. it looks like tomorrow the big deal will be obstruction. that will be the big concentration of the hearing. equivocal obstruction evidence or equivocal obstruction of a noncrime under circumstances where no one actually stopped mueller from conducting the investigation and for all the ranting and raving, president trump actually cooperated with the investigation of the point of allowing the white house counsel big access for the prosecutor to the white house counsel. i just don't think people are as interested in this as they were before. >> shannon: john, final word. we think o...

Big donor, big bundler, big access. the average person doesn't get to visit the white house once, let alone four times up to the week this money is being given. does that seem like the president is playing cronyism that he campaigned against? >> i don't think he is. in prior administrations, i don't know we would have had the same disclosure as to had those meetings for when and what purpose. the reason the president voluntarily has disclosed more about what goes on inside that white house, because he wanted to do that. let's see where the facts lead. if the facts lead to wrongdoing, no matter...

Cars. they can't send their kids to private school. both parents have to work. do you think the american people deserve answers here? >> we most certainly do. and whether it is a democrat or republican white house or congress, if someone has done something wrong they should be prosecuted or sued or dismissed, if they are an employee. >> sean: how about the fact if you bundle money you get to go to the white house, you get the money. doesn't that whole system stink? >> it does stink. you know it is not unprecedented. this has been an ugly fact of american political life for a very longtime. >> ...

Billy, it is not just solyndra, general shelton and light squared. in each case there's common ground that is that you have big donors. big access. four meetings at the white house the week before they got 535 million dollars. then this solar city company, another big donor. and they got 275 million dollars guaranteed. another solar city company. the pattern is the same. money, buys you access, gets you money even if it is going to go bankrupt the taxpayers foot the bill. how big a scandal bill cunningham will in become? >> i watched your friend and mine bob beckel at 5:00 on fox defend this b...