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Here, he was -- you would call h&m a progressive. they did a lot of things -- they gave tax incentives to a big complex -- that's a big retail complex. they had some part in trying to get a baseball stadium in downtown el paso, so he did have that progressive label here on the city council. >> so would you label him a progressive even though won't label himself as one? >> yeah. i mean, i'd say he's a progressive leaning maybe moderate, maybe. he portrays himself, of course, saying that he isn't running against anybody. he's just running for the country, running -- he did a lot of that in his t...