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Kiev trying to make sure there's no note-taker present. >> yes. >> how big a red flag is that, how big a break is that from the norm you were raised on? >> first, just to underscore this really important thing, the president's voice now is directly involved in telling his lieutenants here, one of his three amigos, what to do, and they're all giving each other high five. that's a great tidbit you picked up on, brian, in david holmes' testimony, another guy who used to work with me in moscow. everybody says nobody ever heard of him. i had heard of him before, first rate star who went to a lot of...

Demanding the investigations but directing sondland to carry it out. i think if anybody tries to throw sondland under the bus and say he was freelancing are are ho, holmes is going to contradict that testimony and say he heard the president say it. >> mike mcfaul, we heard today about sondland trying to arrange a meeting with his equivalent in kiev trying to make sure there's no note-taker present. >> yes. >> how big a red flag is that, how big a break is that from the norm you were raised on? >> first, just to underscore this really important thing, the president's voice now is directly invol...

This work for 30 years, and i have rarely seen a report that was more clear that dr. carroll did. it was well thought out. he threw up as big a red flag as any psychiatrist possibly could. he was deliberate in his thinking and his analysis, and pointed out that this is a man who had no remorse for what he did. hoe took no response. >> larry: so why did he only serve five years? >> apparently there was a plea agreement that dr. carroll's warning wasn't heeded, and he wasn't charged and prosecuted as fully as he could have been.

That assessment and did you agree with it? >> well, larry, i've been doing this work for 30 years, and i have rarely seen a report that was more clear and more unambiguous than the report that dr. carroll did. it was well thought out. well reasoned. he threw up as big a red flag as any psychiatrist possibly could. he was deliberate in his thinking and his analysis and pointed out that this is a man who had no remorse for what he did. he took no responsibility for what he did. and he didn't admit what he did. and doctor -- >> larry: so why did he only serve five years? >> apparently there was a...