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Freeze freezer. >> reporter: it was a wild west shootout in broad daylight. ed lavandera in waco, texas. >> for more on this, we are joined by billy queen, and he is a retired feshgs t -- atf agent, and spent many years undercover. and we were told it is chaotic, but when you see this video, it is really, really startling. what surprised you? >> well, i don't know that anything really surprised me. it was quite obviously that all of the bikers that showed up there knew what was going to happen or at least what the possibilities were. they showed up the with that armament they knew there was go...

And what do you think that the fallout is going to be or has been within these biker clubs? >> well, there is a possibility that there may be fallout within the biker's club. as far as fallout with the police, i doubt it is going to occur at all. >> you saw guns in the toilets, and you saw the knives there, and surprised at all by the level of the arsenal that they showed up with? >> no, absolutely not. not at all. when i rode with the mongrels, and we taught that we were going to have problems we showed up armed to the gill. not at all. and besides the firearms, the hammers and the knives and...

Wars. it's kind of like the hatfields and mccoys. it is you know, everyone's calling them gangs, and i appreciate steve, billy, and terry saying that but it's more the clubs we're talking about now are more organized. so they're organizations. when you say gang ss, you think of small street thugs. these are organizations. they're not just gangs. >> you call them -- you said you think of small street thugs, most everyone i know i have heard the media call these guys thugs. do you consider them thugs? >> well you know, no i don't car them thugs. i mean there's some morality in them. the shoot-ou...

Out some place off the grid so to speak, i could definitely move myself up into the organization and fill a gap that now exists with a lot of people locked up in jail. >> gentleman, thank you very much. steve, billy, and terry, appreciate your expertise on this. we have much more to come on this subject tonight. when we come back a man who knows a lot about life inside a biker gang. dwayne "dog" chapman. and race and kids. how young is too young to teach children about racism.

Gang. so here we are, another night, billy, we're hearing people say today that this violence is probably not over. that in the biker world, once a war starts it never ends. so what happens next? >> well i've heard that too. i think things are going to cool down because the eyes of the nation are on texas right now. and although the bikers do a lot of stupid stuff, they're not that stupid. they're not stupid enough to go out and start shooting police officers especially other gangsters, while everybody in the country's watching them. >> but they shot at police officers when this all happened. ...