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Is something that they are considering, but it is very complicated. it's something that could have blow back, not just on the u.s. economy but on the european economy. it's not something -- it's very tricky to do you, what we've heard from president biden is that he wants to try to do these sanctions against russia in a way that doesn't inflict so much pain on the american people and our economy, we're already seeing skyrocketing gas prices, that is something that he will have to contend with. those are going to get worse. another thing that they're preparing for, katie, or cyberattacks, russi...

International's work, for years. that is the goal here. i think that vladimir putin holds some leverage over us, because of oil and gas, and things like that. we need to decide, do we want to be in a situation where that is still true in five years time? so, yes, there could be economic damage that putin can inflict back on us, but, i think we need to make a decision as a society, where we stand with democracies, or autocracies, whether there's a murderous tyrant, and more criminal, and it going forward. the threat is real, and there will be some economic blow back, but they will be prices a t...

What kinds of blow back would they get if they get too aggressive here? . >> well, the questions republicans have had for a few years, and it colored the midterm elections of 2018, is that do you go so far in appealing to the zealous far-right base that you turn off the suburban moderate voters, people who don't share the qanon beliefs or the most aggressive of the culture war concerns that right-wing republicans do. you have the potential of turning those people off. in 2018, whether republicans lost the house, they turned a lot of suburban voters off. so that's what's in play. and right now ...

Russia and other countries and further isolate moscow from the rest of the world economically. this comes as congress is debating to perhaps revoke what is known as permanent normalized trade with russia, which would only further step up the economic pressure, increase the costs. so as every move the white house has made on this front, they're, of course, mindful of the blow back that could come at home. we know consumer prices have risen here in the united states, inflation hitting a 40-year high and certainly oil and gas top of that list with the import ban on russian oil just announced earl...

Would hurt everybody and are not a good solution. while nato allies say their china strategy is to use more of a carrot than a stick, critics point out that secondary sanctions if the u.s. and allies impose them on china would have massive blow-back on the u.s. economy and on european economies. so china is still holding some very valuable cards, martha. >> martha: indeed. jacqui, thank you very much. with that, let's bring in former united states ambassador to nato, kay bailey hutchison. thanks nor being here today. how do you see china's role? clearly they're watching this and saw what happe...