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After him. >> during all the debates. portman as you point out, has some baggage from the bush years. and pawlenty has none of that. he's also outside washington. >> here's what boston likes about pawlenty, low maintenance. they've had him doing these surrogate events around the country, different republican state republican conventions. they say they call him -- he doesn't need any body guy, he doesn't need any infrastructure. he just says, send me my plane ticket and he goes and speaks for romney and here's the biggest one and joe, you'll like this, somebody told me they're a yin and yang. p...

Sanctimonious, he placed his person who's now the secretary of homeland security in as his deputy, that they tried to rule the west wing with an iron fist, that they pushed out some of the president's favorites, his body guy, mr. schiller, mr. campaign guy corey lewandowski, he tried to isolate the president from some of the original cast. that whole group is using this situation, stringing it together with his other public controversies and making the case that it's time for john kelly to go. >> when kelly came into the office, he had said one thing he was going to do is try to crack down on ...