>> about what wars we should be fighting. as soon as the al qaeda figures who had responsible response for the attack got through the tore a bora caves, the -- >> i want to bring you in. it's the problem we're thinking about war the wrong way. the idea of two states being at war with each other was just the wrong way to think about what was happening. >> that's what i was about to say. the way we think about war, we're still stuck in many ways in a world war ii mentality. that you fight a war, you conquer the enemy, there is an unconditional surrender. >> you leave bases behind. >> and you've ...