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This madness. and the president says, i'm not going to reopen government until you agree to a wall. that is where we are stuck right now. >> well, and that isn't going to change if we're doing it through you and other media outlets as opposed to sitting down at the table. look, the number that the president wants for the wall is coming as a recommendation from the subject matter experts. the border security experts down there. which, by the way think there the leader was appointed under the obama administration. this is not a partisan issue, it's trying to find what's actually going to work be...

And as we've seen with clear-cut proof, a lot of those efforts were aimed at suppressing african-american vote. did they use that polling data to guide the russian social media efforts to suppress african-american vote? we don't know the answer to that yet. i would hope that mueller has got more indication. but it's a very real question. >> let's turn to the shutdown. you represent roughly 34,000 federal workers in virginia who are currently going without pay and contractors who may never get back pay. let's ask where you are on this debate about the border wall. is it your position that there...

Or wall? >> there is already 700 miles-plus of wall that's been built, some for more than a decade. that was decided by border security experts. i'm for additional border security. but that border security ought to be driven by the experts, not by the political whims of a campaign promise where trump said the wall was going to be built and paid for by mexico. this guy doesn't tell the truth. so more border security, let's have at it. while we're having that debate, let's reopen the government. tim kaine, my fellow senator and i met with a set of federal workers the other day very briefly. here...

Had are obsolete for things like dealing with family asylum issues. they're gaming the system a little, are they not? >> i think that is fair. migrants and the mugglers they pay understand our enforcement policies and they understand ways around our enforcement policies. very clearly. but simply building a wall for the sake of building a wall is not the answer. you ask border social security expe -- border security experts, they will tell you more surveillance, boats, planes, lights, perhaps more border patrol agents, and perhaps fence or wall in places where we need to fortify it along the so...

Very strong. >> the president really does believe you can solve this in 10 minutes. we're asking for $5.6 billion. they offer us zero. the democrats for better or worse think they're winning this battle politically. >> the president is prepared to do what it takes to protect our borders, to protect the people of this country. >> we need to open up government and then negotiate. not the other way around. because we're prepared to negotiate. >> the president seems unaware of this but we've already built a wall across much of the border and all border security experts that i talk to say where a w...