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1940's when american communists gave the soviets atomic bomb secrets. now, if -- and the administration sort of has to do that but it's not bad the way wikileaks wanted it to be bad. if you read the documents, there are no revelations of american atrocities. there are no revelations of dark american plots, take the formula, formula from the world's babies. very quickly, it's two fold. first of all, the volume of debt, size matters. it gives our enemies terrorist world regimes an incredible blueprint of how our diplomacy in our military worked and second, and wikileaks ignores this is if by nam...

Wikileaks is responsible. >> bret, let's go to you. you, i would imagine, disagree with what ralph just said. you -- do you define julian assange as kind of a modern day cyber hero? >> i wouldn't say modern day cyber hero but certainly, he's a very strong and powerful add voe catt -- advocate for the right for the freedom of speech. we're seeing this in the u.s. constitution and the u.s. declaration of human rights to the basis of the democracies in which australians and americans, you know, operate and from our perspective, i think it's important to assure this person is not actually demonize...

American security since the 1940's when american communists gave the soviets atomic bomb secrets. now, if -- and the administration sort of has to do that but it's not bad the way wikileaks wanted it to be bad. if you read the documents, there are no revelations of american atrocities. there are no revelations of dark american plots, take the formula, formula from the world's babies. very quickly, it's two fold. first of all, the volume of debt, size matters. it gives our enemies terrorist world regimes an incredible blueprint of how our diplomacy in our military worked and second, and wikilea...