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Fundamentalists. there would be conflicts of course, but surely, he, of all people, could convince his congregation and maybe the evangelical community to welcome his new idea, that everyone is saved, that hell as a place after death does not exist. >> so is it really authentically biblical to believe in the hell we've been taught? >> but you don't always get what you wish for. >> my wife and i heard it on television. >> just outside tulsa, carlton's home turf, is a fiery old-time pastor named bill timms. timms had once been a mentor and friend to carlton. and now? well, this was a shock. >> h...

Hell was real. >> it's no different than you running a show and people don't like it and people don't believe it and so they watch another show. it's the market. >> once his big church had taken in $60,000 a week. now week by week it slid, $50,000, $30,000, $10,000, then barely $6,000. he couldn't meet the payroll, not a quarter of the payroll. his staff of assistant ministers sent out resumes, found jobs in other churches. to stay with carlton now, many seemed to feel, would be both morally wrong and career suicide. though very few of them like children's pastor steve palmer and senior associ...

>> but as brother timms and others were quick to point out human weaknesses, like ted's, can strike almost anyone. but leading people astray is serious business. to many people, what carlton had done was the fouler deed by far. >> they're both dangerous. i wouldn't want to be in either one of their shoes. >> where are they headed? >> they're headed for perdition. they're headed for hell as sure as there is a hell. >> but they can forgive ted because ted still believes you have to confess christ to be saved. >> he can be forgiven. >> yes. >> you can't? >> i cannot. no. >> it was for many who'd ...

Control. a form of religious tyranny. now i consider myself a freedom fighter, trying to get people free from the paranoia and the penalty of following these people who say it's our way or the highway. >> and his own religious leaders, his fellow churchmen, were, no surprise, dismayed. >> listen, i love him. he is not qualified to preach in my church. not by the book. not by the book. he's not qualified. >> they're afraid i'm going to lead people to hell. they're afraid that i'm going to lead people away from the tradition. they're afraid. everything's fear. >> that's exactly what bill timms s...

>> but here on earth? >> here on earth. >> but as brother timms and others were quick to point out human weaknesses, like ted's, can strike almost anyone. but leading people astray is serious business. to many people, what carlton had done was the fouler deed by far. >> they're both dangerous. i wouldn't want to be in either one of their shoes. >> where are they headed? >> they're headed for perdition. they're headed for hell. >> but they can forgive ted because ted still believes you have to confess christ to be saved. >> he can be forgiven? >> yes. >> you can't? >> i cannot. no. >> it was fo...