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Plan are largely bogus. >> no, you just added largely bogus and i do not agree with that. we have had major cuts on various parts of the defense discretionary of ten year freeze. the budget window is a ten year window. the alternative that mr. romney is putting forward is no specifics. he is proposed specifically $5 trillion of tax cuts and you heard mr. hubbard saying what mr. romney says which is i will go find some loopholes to close to pay for that. >> chris: let me interrun because i want to go if i can because it as legitimate point to mr. hubbard on that. romney's plan. he says he wants...

>> no, you just added largely bogus and i do not agree with that. we have had major cuts on various parts of the defense discretionary of ten year freeze. the budget window is a ten year window. the alternative that mr. romney is putting forward is no specifics. he is proposed specifically $5 trillion of tax cuts and you heard mr. hubbard saying what mr. romney says which is i will go find some loopholes to close to pay for that. >> chris: let me interrun because i want to go if i can because it as legitimate point to mr. hubbard on that. romney's plan. he says he wants to cut $500 billion fro...

Problems even worse by essentially taking $716 million from it and using that money to pay for obamacare? >> that's exactly what the president does. he steals money from medicare to pay for health care plan that we simply can't afford. and gregg, originally we were talking about $500 billion of cuts from medicare. now we're talking $700 billion because the budget window moved forward two years. gregg: right. >> when we move the budget window forward when it really kicks in, we're talking trillion dollars. closer to two trillion dollars in savings or cuts from medicare or something or additiona...

Think -- has outed the white house for being -- being tax -- people that increase taxes on american people. >> yeah. >> isn't that what conservatives have been saying? >> sure. let's face it, the president promised he wouldn't raise taxes on the middle class by a penny with this health care law. that's been proven false now. i heard an earlier guest say it's very difficult to figure out what the cost of this is going to be. it's pretty easy to find out the minimum cost. take a look at the real budget window when they kicks in 2016 to 2025, will cost $2.4 trillion and we only have about a half ...

Ten-year budget window, taxes will have gone up 1.6 trillion dollars our debt burden would have gone up. it raises taxes and i know creases the debt, it's unab unbelievable and this is, what is the term? >> a train wreck or whatever. >> ezra klein called it cruel and violent. no, this country, over the long-term, if we grow, if we have a strong recovery, which requires investments, and fair and impartial share kind of economics and politics, you know, we talk about entitlements, these are not entitlements, social security and medicare, these are rights that americans have worked hard to pay in...