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System. >> it is such a bad law that the president himself has had to change it or says he's had to change it over 40 times through the executive maneuvers. >> i completely agree that it's a bad law. but vi to challenge john. the american people reflected barack obama in 2012. and the broader point of financial literacy in this count country, only six states require the testing of personal finance. we make you learn pr squared but not how to balance a checkbook. >> this condescending attitude, it's almost a definition of the big brother. you guys can't understand it so leigh it up to me, i'll ...

Americans could not explain why things that are not normally covered by insurance, like lasix surgery or dental implant have gone down dramatically in price because of the free market. if they had, obamacare would never have passed. >> well, steve, mike came out with that figure. in fact most americans do understand that it is a bad law, that this is a very consistent figure despite democrats when they pass laws saying americans would learn to love it. americans still don't like it. >> they don't like it because it doesn't deliver. in free markets you don't have to be an expert. you don't have...

Who is right? welcome to forbes on fox. let's go in focus to find out with steve forbes. "the soft edge" just picked as one of the top business books of the year. are we the problem, john, or is it the law? >> sebelius is 100% incorrect. if markets are smart, then the lecter rate come prices all known information. and the lect electorate is very once the law was rolled out, voters rebuked the democrats once again in 2014. voters like the markets ultimately reflect the truth and they're well awir of the damage that the politicians did. >> make, what do you think? >> i think sebelius has a good ...

I feel terrible about what i said about al sharpton. >> no you don't. >> you are funny and clearly brilliant. we're continuing right now with my friend david. first jonathon gruber calls americans stupid. now kathleen sebelius is talking about the americans. >> a lot of people don't know what insurance is all about and if they have coverage, what it means, what a deductible is, what a copay is. how to choose the network. those are complicated terms. i think the financial literacy, particularly people who did not have insurance coverage or whose employers choose their conch and present it to ...

The greatest nation that's ever existed some 200-plus years into the experiment without the help of these people. but steve is absolutely right. how is it that a three-year-old -- you can youtube this -- can figure out how to use an ipad without instructions. it's because apple present to the people a great product. and the government is not doing that with obamacare. >> governments don't present great products. in fact, sabrina, this law -- i used to cover latin america and we used to make fun of the latin american laws because they have so many and their were so complex that in order to foll...