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Is that the way you read it? >> completely. it's been interesting to me over the last few months what a silent figure kushner has remained. i think under the very strict whip of his very sophisticated washington counsel. but as you say he is everywhere. one other place i would add, he's the last figure to leave the oval office before trump buttonholes comey and says can you maybe drop these charges. and you would have expected him to be an essential figure in the building of an obstruction case, which you figure is complete save for trump's interview because they're negotiating trump's intervi...

Most in jeopardy after manafort. is that the way you read it? >> completely. it's been interesting to me over the last few months what a silent figure kushner has remained. i think under the very strict whip of his very sophisticated washington counsel. but as you say he is everywhere. one other place i would add, he's the last figure to leave the oval office before trump buttonholes comey and says can you maybe drop these charges. and you would have expected him to be an essential figure in the building of an obstruction case, which you figure is complete save for trump's interview because th...

Familiar with the matter have identified as kushner. he seems to be in the center of everything, the firing of comey, the contacts with kislyak, his own contacts with a bank that was sanctioned, his contact asking for a back channel to talk to russia. so kushner feels like the person most in jeopardy after manafort. is that the way you read it? >> completely. it's been interesting to me over the last few months what a silent figure kushner has remained. i think under the very strict whip of his very sophisticated washington counsel. but as you say he is everywhere. one other place i would add,...