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Media leaders as important and almost celebrities, meaning there are a lot of political sites out there that when a senator says something they say this senator said this, and that's news. we do the same thing with leaders in media. when anyone from, you know, glenn beck to rachel maddow to katie couric says something publicly about an issue -- >> or has a contentious interview. >> contentious interview. but the point is it's not just about them as interviewers. it's also about them as thought leaders. and i think that that's what's made mediaite a little bit different, is that recognizing tha...

It's just got to be someone who every day peel want to tune in to see what that person says. and that's what mediaite's about. it's the idea that what these people say is interesting, so you have to have interesting hosts who people care what they say. it doesn't mean that every day they have to be on the left or the right. i think there are some people, for example, sheppard smith at fox, you never know exactly what he's going to say. that's interesting. he makes really interesting television. >> you offered a point of view when you were a cable news host -- >> i guess not interesting enough....

Mediaite and then a slew of others. but how much harder is it to draw an audience online than simply by walking into a television studio? i spoke to him earlier in new york. >> dan abrams, welcome. >> thank you. good to be here. >> you spent your whole career in television. why did you want to go into the web world? >> because i think there's just enormous opportunity. >> enormous opportunity to make money? >> to make money. to create content. i mean, the idea that you can kind of put down a flag in an industry and you can become a leader in that industry if you do it well. you weren't able to...