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To gain pretty to be playing horseshoes with him, he could be playing cards on air forced to, later air force one. anything, he liked to have a little competition. he was going to win the little mini game. he had all kinds of great little nicknames for people, and fun competitions all the time. at the white house and elsewher elsewhere. >> harris: bob grady, former advisor for the former president. the 1988 presidential campaign predicts that history lesson on august 1st. we have forgotten that huge gap that he had, losing at the time to michael dukakis. don't hang those drapes too soon, he sa...

Someone down, and trump world has a lot of people involved in a lot of stretchy things. >> yep. >> michael cohen, the piece about him leads you if a motivated prosecutor wants to make a turn on anybody in the country about anything, he probably can be turned in that sense. so we should be hopefully at the end of the rainbow. when someone turned it's for a good reason. >> yeah, that's right. just like innocent people take the fifth amendment. it doesn't mean that he is actually guilty that he took the fifth in the lawsuit about defamation but in this case it actually could. he has mad exposure ...

Defamation but in this case it actually could. he has mad exposure on any number of federal and state levels. just to be clear, the state exposure means that the president cannot pardon him. the president is not able to pardon anyone for a state crime. >> final question about the money. there is $200,000 plus in legal fees apparently being paid by the trump campaign. the trump campaign says it's all russia-related stuff. it's by the boards. he was exposed to it because of his relationship with the trump campaign. we're not paying for anything else because that would be a problem. >> so if it i...

And it's also grounds for impeachment. you just can't do that. you can't try to effect this investigation by pardoning a witness who may say something bad against you. >> but don't you think that mule tear and his team in accepting this plea bargain agreement where them, they got everything out of him in the course of all of the discussions they had leading up to that plea agreement? >> we don't know. we don't know exactly what all the conversations have been. but robert mueller has been very smart. only charged michael flynn with one count. meaning that state prosecutors could go after michae...

Cooperate, does that signal to you that he feels exposed, that he feels unprotected by a possible presidential pardon? >> yes, i would say that the fact that his legal fees haven't been paid, or that we don't know they've been paid. the fact that no pardon has been offered might have made him uncomfortable. the other thing that could be playing a role in this, he may have committed a violation of state law. when he was talking about possibly kidnapping an american resident. the muslim cleric, to return him to turkey, that becomes a state crime as well. and the president cannot pardon him from ...