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he is south africa's most prominent, most controversial political cartoonist. so, amid all of its troubles, is south africa able to laugh at itself? jonathan shapiro, better known by the pen name zapiro, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. well, it's a great pleasure to meet you, and i want to begin with something you said a few years ago. you said, "moral outrage is what drives a cartoonist." you've been at this cartooning for pretty much four decades. can you maintain outrage for four decades? you can. when i was doing five or six cartoons a week, i would sometimes wonder what the hell...

welcome to hardtalk. jonathan shapiro, better known by the pen name zapiro, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. well, it's a great pleasure to meet you, and i want to begin with something you said a few years ago. you said, "moral outrage is what drives a cartoonist." you've been at this cartooning for pretty much four decades. can you maintain outrage for four decades? you can. laughter when i was doing five or six cartoons a week, i would sometimes wonder what the hell i'm going to do today, and you wake up in the morning and the news — itjust keeps coming. it would happen to cartoon...

jonathan shapiro, better known by the pen name zapiro, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. well, it's a great pleasure to meet you, and i want to begin with something you said a few years ago. you said, "moral outrage is what drives a cartoonist." you've been at this cartooning for pretty much four decades. can you maintain outrage for four decades? you can. laughter when i was doing five or six cartoons a week, i would sometimes wonder what the hell i'm going to do today, and you wake up in the morning and the news — itjust keeps coming. it would happen to cartoonists everywhere in th...

to laugh at itself? jonathan shapiro, better known by the pen name zapiro, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. well, it's a great pleasure to meet you, and i want to begin with something you said a few years ago. you said, "moral outrage is what drives a cartoonist." you've been at this cartooning for pretty much four decades. can you maintain outrage for four decades? you can. laughter when i was doing five or six cartoons a week, i would sometimes wonder what the hell i'm going to do today, and you wake up in the morning and the news — itjust keeps coming. it would happen to cartooni...

"this happened to me. i was not only raped, but i was gang raped." and i understand that it's a metaphor and that this also represents a condemnation of this kind of patriarchy and violence against women. so, many women who identified with and saw my empathy. so, those who actually wanted an apology from you, they never got one? i didn't say i'm not sorry, i didn't say things like that. i said i want to hear, i want to listen and i will defend the cartoon, i'll keep defending the cartoon, but i appreciate that not everybody sees it in exactly the same way. but i felt i came out of that particu...