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It leaves a weird worst-case scenario for everybody involved for the democratic party. >> yeah, that's right. institutions have a lot of choke points, and, you know, centrists have, you know, been dominating the house from the democratic side and the senate as well for a very long time. and they have their hands around that choke point. and they are a different generation. as i write about in the book, a lot of them were formed in the, you know, they were traumatized by the 1980s by witnessing ronald reagan kind of wipe them out. and they've been in their defensive crouch for the last 30 years...

Broadly popular. even republicans like them. and go in on them and show that you are willing to change. the whole point is you want a change from what's there now. so i don't think it's a not smart idea for the democrats to go for a change message. >> you know, ryan, there is an interesting piece in "new york" magazine that syncs up with a lot of your reporting and some of the stuff you write about in the book, about the kind of insurgent left grassroots of the democratic party. eric live its writes the democrats aren't a democratic party, they just play one on tv. liberals may set the discour...