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We have robert ray on the show tonight. >> well -- >> that's the lawyer you're speaking about, we'll have him on the show later today. we'll go through the theory. >> no, not -- i'm not talking about him, i'm talking about civosky and bradley. people who are experts in this field. >> right, but i'm not -- i don't -- i'm not in the speculation business. i'm talking about facts. david pecker was at the meeting. >> you are -- no, you're not. >> he said the president was at the meeting. that's a fact. >> so you like to -- no, no, no. stop saying words facts and lies. >> that is a fact by expeditio...