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And this administration is going to have to come an end or we could lose our democracy, we cannot have people talking this way and getting away with it, this president talking about pardoning himself, it's absurd. i mean, there's not an instance in human history of someone pardoning themselves. the word pardon by its nature involves two persons. a person and a higher being. it's a completely absur the way they're talking about donald trump as if he is a dictator who can do anything he wants, whenever he wants. the founders did not create a constitution for this country so we could have a presi...

Is going on right now, it depends on really who you support politically, the constitution unfortunately is not clear on it, ultimately the supreme court is going to have to be -- >> are you more of a lyin-manue person or diggs. >> i haven't seen it yet. >> you're coming on this show making references to theater you haven't seen? >> i'm a strict constructionist, i do think that the constitution speaks in terms of granting the president some authority with regard to this kind of -- >> brian, have you seen hamilton? before we go. >> no, it is coming to east lansing next year, and i have my ticket...

Stephanopolous yesterday, because he would lie. >> which was astounding, we have a little more on that later in the hour. paul, all of this relates back to the subpoena, that is the pressure here. >> is there in your view, a white house argument here that they can still fight it? >> i don't think so. the supreme court person in here says from the nixon case, that you -- documents can be subpoenaed in a criminal case, it didn't go to the president's testimony. the paula jones case, bill clinton was required to testify in a civil case. >> it's less important. >> if you put thattogether, take it ...

Many things. >> thank you so much for coming on the beat. >> my pleasure. up ahead, the great michael eric dyson is here, we're going to talk about his new book. and we might even talk music up ahead. oh, you brought butch. yeah! (butch growls at man) he's looking at me right now, isn't he? yup. (butch barks at man) butch is like an old soul that just hates my guts. (laughs) (vo) you can never have too many faithful companions. that's why i got a subaru crosstrek. love is out there. find it in a subaru crosstrek.

>> do you and the president's attorneys believe the prede has the power to pardon himself? >> he's not, but he probably does. >> he has no intention of pardoning himself, bute probably does. that doesn't mean he can't. that's another interesting constitutional item. can the president pardon himself. it would be an open question. i think it would get answered by, gosh, that's what the constitution says, and if you want to chain it, change it. >> even if juligiuliani claims an open question, he also admits it would blow up spectacularly on trump. >> the president of the united states pardoning h...