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With someone who was a russian official, when in reality don jr. and his emails show that he was aware of that. so there were a lot of contradictions and things that rudy giuliani may be walking back today. >> i don't know how truth isn't truth could be a statement on moral or a pontiffcation on moral theology. i was a philosophy major. it's really more of an epistology matter. anyway, kristen welker at the white house, jonathan lamire, thank you for being with us. ken vogel, thank you as well. you started all of this, of course. and ben wittes for all of the insight. we appreciate it. >> and ...