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Second, the lebedevs, and particularly evgeny, were very proud of the work they raised, the money they raised for the gorbachev cancer foundation. they had gorbachev in the evening standard newsroom. putin despises gorbachev. he sees gorbachev as the man who helped collapse the soviet union, ending russia as a great power. so, i mean, it's a strange thing to have that kind of close relationship with gorbachev. now third, i would draw a distinction between the father and the son. the son always struck me as a bit of a hedonist. i mean, you know... well, i didn't go by the way, katie, ijust want...

And end of a kgb agent. i think it's very disputed whether there is such a thing as a former kgb agent, as you know, to quote vladimir putin himself, who once said in one of his famous press conferences, once a spy, always a spy, he said that to edward snowden. so whether or not that's the case, that's the father, not the son. we're talking about the son right now. absolutely. but at the same time, what was happening with the independent at the same time, he had just taken over, and it was very clear that it was about his reputational kind of, you know, him trying to come across as a different...

You injust, you know, mr lebedev is now a peer sitting in the house of lords. sunday times this week alleged that he was deemed a security risk during the vetting process, but that boris johnson disagreed with this analysis. i think you've been trying to find out exactly what happened. that's right. so we know that, you know, really, just a few weeks within borisjohnson being elected prime minister in december 2019, he decided to make evgenya member of the house of lords. so it was his personal nomination. and we know through documents we got through f0|as, that the house of lords appointments...

That's ukraine — "in the most public way possible." paul, ijust wanted to bring you in. mr lebedev is now a peer sitting in the house of lords. sunday times this week alleged that he was deemed a security risk during the vetting process, but that boris johnson disagreed with this analysis. i think you've been trying to find out exactly what happened. that's right. so we know that, really, just a few weeks within borisjohnson being elected prime minister in december 2019, he decided to make evgeny a member of the house of lords, so it was his personal nomination. we know, through documents we...

Not a household name by any means, i should say, seemed to have such a good — such good access to borisjohnson. paul caruana galizia, you've explored this question too for tortoise media. take us back to the beginning. i mean, in 2009, the russian businessman and former kgb agent alexander lebedev bought the london evening standard for £1. his son, evgeny, became the paper's publisher. a year later, they bought the independent, also for £1. just tell us a bit about it all. so, we release the podcast on the monday before the sunday times followed it up, and it was commissioned actually in d...