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I'm going to do some things near your borders. he may, for example, increase the frequency of which bombers visit places like as nicaragua or venezuela or cuba and basically say, now, i've done something parallel, so you don't have any advantages. so, i think there's lots of ways this can play out, as mike mcfaul said, we don't know, anyone who says with confidence they know what is going to happen next doesn't know what he or she is talking abe. i'm not even sure mr. putin knows. he's less of a chess player, hi does martial arts, my guess is how he can push off balance and again, to deter thi...

Officials that i have been speaking to think that's the least likely scenario, but they think it's still possible or that he could try to take a piece of this country, most like a piece of the country in the east or the southeast where i am right now, and if you move blood, it means you're expecting casualties, it means you're expecting to have to treat some of your own soldiers. but it could be a bluff. it certainly could be. i've spoken to many putinologists, criminologists they used to be called who watch vladimir putin, and they say don't think of him as a chess player, think of him as a p...

Something out of this. he is not in a place where can he back out and not get something decide what that something is. if they can maneuver that nord stream 2 again. that's probably the best win for this white house. i don't know if russia is allowed to be their win. people so prideful as russians seem to be especially in their government. i don't see how putin doesn't push this until he gets something out of it and so that's reason why the debate. >> steve: like what? >> the debate over sanctions has been depending on who am listening to. i said on this nation i'm a checker's player. guy on t...

Themming insight into the extensive preparations and planning that went into this russian invasion, so they could see all of that. they tried to release as much as possible and i give them credit and the biden administration credit for releasing that. from the ukrainian people's perspective, i think they always looked at vladimir putin as the kwichlt of a cold, calculating russian chess player who would make his moves based on his assessment of the strengths and weaknesses and limitations of his adversaries and not to do something as mad as this, which, you know, to have this wanton invasion a...

He annexed crimea from eastern ukraine, and we heard the word sanctions, sanctions. you have to understand the impact of these so-called sanctions on putin look at the list of the oligarchs in forbes. the list is growing longer and fatter. >> it's interesting given the fact you are a legendary chess player and you made a point to say putin is no chess player. how so? >> because in chess you have 100% available information about the pieces and resources of your opponent and you cannot bluff. putin is a poker player if you want to use an analogy with a board game, and he knows how to bluff. and ...