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Up the release of the javelins. it was in december of 2017 that the state department had announced that it was approving the sale and then in march given final approval. by april, the first of the javelins had arrived. the holdup was not lasting that long. the difference between the first go-round, second go-round, clear intention to influence political ross in pru krcrew ukraine. the first round you had some of the same players. giuliani was present in ukraine and visiting with the president poroshenko in june 2017 and november of 2017. we don't know that giuliani was, you know, very publicly...

He was there more clearly to actually pursue some foreign work and providing advice to a city that was trying to improve its own security. so there's a lot of same characters. there's a lot of chronological correlations, but the first go-around, the quid pro quo part of it is not nearly clear cut. >> in terms of what mr. giuliani was talking to them about, some things you were describing there in terms of the business pursuits he was having, the for-show meetings we know he was having at the time, certainly it was probably a prestige thing for a number of ukrainian figures to be seen meeting w...