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He continues to make statements that will not help him when the rubber meets the road. >> yeah. go ahead. what did you -- >> i was going to say, john dowd and i, when i was in the southern district and he was in main justice, we prosecuted a congressman from pennsylvania in a bribery case and he was a great trial lawyer. a lawyer is only as good as the facts. and to think that one is on the wrong end of the criminal investigation can go about their business, you spend a lot of time in terms of client management trying to help a person have the will to help you defend them and to live realistic...

But goldman does id have the gu their head. goldman said we still don't think that we were guilty of any criminal charges here, but they thought that the legal costs of going forward with this case would have probably been more expensive than just to settle. >> and probably public relations damages, too. >> absolutely. >> does it send any kind of message to wall street the fact that the s.e.c. exacted in from goldman? >> unfortunately on wall street there's a bit of tendency to turn over the reigns of client management and trading book decisions to people who are between 25 and 35 years old an...