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40,000 collateral consequence that's impact your life, jobs, pel grants, loans from banks, do you think, yes or no, that the system of mass incarceration has disproportionately benefit african-american communities, yes or no, sir? >> i redugs in crime has since 1992 but i think that the -- the heavy drug penalties, especially on crack and other things have harmed the black community, the incarceration rates have harmed the black communities. >> i would conclude to my chairman and partner, thank you, sir, on this because i'm really grateful for this bipartisan group, the heritage foundation. i'...

Ploy, do you think buy prosecutors so simply stop him from talking to potential witnesses or sort of a pile on of charges and sitting in jail in effort to elicit cooperation from him? >> well, so i think that there's no reason to doubt that prosecutors were upset by what they have alleged as additional criminal activity while somebody is out on bail. in a specific attempt to tamper with people who are likely to be witnesses in the case, and any good prosecutor is going to respond very certainly to that and take that very seriously. so i think the added pressure that it creates from manafort is...

Thinking about doing this, make sure you understand that my resignation would be another collateral consequence of that decision. >> neil: i'm wondering if the world is coming back to see the wisdom of some of the attorney general's ways? for example, his face at the i.g. in this case could be impartial and fair looking into andy mccabe at the justice department for leaking. sure enough, not only the is inspector general hard on him for lying but recommending, you know, criminal charges for doing so. this is just the latest. do you think the tides could be turning for mr. session and how he ha...

Matt taibbi joins me now here at this table. congratulations on the book. >> thanks for having me. >> all right, so that story is a real high definition story. it wasn't even they were rigging some security you never heard of. they were just helping people launder drug money. >> oh yeah, this is a scene out of scar face, remember when all the guys were walking into if bank with duffel bags full of cash and walking out with duffel bags. that's what they were doing. it was drug dealers depositing money in a bag. >> why is the collateral consequences unreasonable? a lot of people work for hsbc. n...

So are those really good numbers to go by? >> they're definitely good numbers to go by because people get more engaged. if you've been through the criminal justice system, people typically do care about the kinds of laws that impact their lives. and really important to this is, one in five african-americans in states like virginia and florida don't have their right to vote due to felony convictions. that devastates those communities when there is a loss of political power due to these felony convictions. so you could imagine that mass incarceration and the war on drugs that has devastated blac...