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People that made a mistake. you're institutionalizing them, you're teaching the worst of the worst character traits you can find and then you're sending them back into society. as a completely useless person because they can't get a -- they're never going to get hired again, never. they're not going to find a job. they're going to be useless in society. they're going to lose their kids. their kids are now going to grow up as children without parents which is worsening society. >> i'm glad you brought that up because there's a ripple effect a collateral effect that you write about in the book. ...

Okay, don't be so quick to think they deserve what they got because you're going to get what you get when they come out. you're taking people that for the most part have been good people that made a mistake. you're institutionalizing them. you're teaching the worst of the worst character traits you can find and then you're sending them back into society as a completely useless person because they can't get a -- they're never going to get hired again, never. they're not going to find a job. they're going to be useless in society. they're going to lose their kids. their kids are now going to gro...