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Interpretation. but collusion is collusion if the facts are there. the import of the george papadopoulos film, the import of the people that mueller is looking for now is that he believes, and he knows pits important if he's going to be sxrebl convincing. that he has to make the collusion case. not just the obstruction case. and he thinks the collusion case is there. and that is the political bombshell here. because i think even the bannons and the stones of the world thought donald trump could fight his way through an obstruction case. because it's political to some extent. one man's obstruct...

That he either wants other people to corroborate in order to build a larger collusion case and he may supersede this indictment against manafort as it grows. >> they might know that he actually talked to other people on the campaign about what he was told about the hillary clinton e-mails and they just left that out? is that possible? >> you mean papadopoulos. >> i think that's entirely possible. >> it seems quite likely. they're basically telling us at that hearing where papadopoulos entered his guilty plea said this is just a small part of a larger investigation. so anybody thought that bob ...

All stuff that happened before the campaign. remember that those two fisa warrants started in 2014 or so and continued all the way up until january of this year. so there -- and a fisa would mean that he was demonstrably and knowingly acting along with a foreign intelligence service. so there may be additional information that mueller has that he either wants other people to corroborate in order to build a larger collusion case and he may supersede this indictment against manafort as it grows. >> does that mean that they might know that he actually talked to other people on the campaign about ...

Hoping robert mueller and his team would hand them a smoking gun against donald trump in their collusion case but instead it is falling short. charges against paul manfort and richard gates have anything to do with the trump administration? joining us to discuss is tammy bruce. thank you for joining us. we were just talking about it. it doesn't mention donald trump anywhere in the indictment. >> this is a very -- regarding manafort pre-donald trump, pre-campaign, this goes back to 2006-2012, he hired the podesta group which is a democrat firm, tony podesta, the most powerful brother of john po...

I think we need to make sure we understand the facts, take it slowly and go from there. i also do think, though, it's good we have this conversation. we do feed to get a handle on any sort of foreign influence in our election process, you know the washington post reported earlier this week, we know the democrats were dishonest regarding their role in the fusion gps situation and what ultimately resulted in the dossier that we all have been talking about this week. i do think we need to have a broader conversation about any sort of foreign entity having to do with anything in elections in our c...