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Something back? i guess that's the heart of the collusion inquiry. one of the other questions, betsy, that you've been looking at is, okay, can paul manafort help answer that question? i don't think we know. i mean, he's so central to so much of this, sometimes there is a forest gump like quality. he has relationships in russia. always, you know, only one degree of separation from people linked to th the kgb and so for. a source familiar with the case says the indictment is brutal for manafort but the reason is interesting, quote, paul's problem is he doesn't have anything to trade. cooperatin...

Witness. it is clear the focus is mainly on him. it is clear on the basis of the other information mueller is looking for that he's no longer -- if he's not already a formal subject of the collusion inquiry, at least it's a track that mueller is digging into in a pretty significant way. and it's hard given all of that public information, it's hard for trump to continue to insist, although it doesn't stop him. it is hard for him to insist he's absolutely in the clear. >> can you imagine -- i mean, we've been on other sides of the partisan divide. but you know, bush and cheney had no problem fin...

Terms and the timing and the duration and the content of that interview. it is not for the subject of the interview to set conditions. >> those attorneys know that. why are they asking that? >> because they're trying to do the best they can for their client. they have some public, you know, leverage in the sense many people think this is something which should end and maybe they're trying to pressure the mueller team into thinking that they can't really get away with this as a pr matter but in the end mueller has a grand jury. he has a grand jury subpoena. and he can subpoena the president. th...

Go ahead and release e-mails if you've got them. that didn't impress anybody at the time. it doesn't look pretty now. but it doesn't look like there was anything clandestine going on. >> michael, i know you're chomping at the bit. but quickly, i'm getting yelled at. >> in the collusion inquiry, there is matters that need to be investigated by mueller. the trump tower meeting with don junior on june 9th, the release of wikileaks through don junior's efforts as well. so there are collusive activities, conspiracy to violate the federal election laws, conspiracy to violate the hacking -- anti-hack...

Kept in her basement, we never got those. we never got those. so this whole chatter especially in the summer of 2016 never bore in any fruit to the extent there was any fruit. and frankly trump was pretty -- there was unusual types of statements, saying hey, russia go ahead and release e-mails if you've got them. that didn't impress anybody at the time. it doesn't look pretty now. but it doesn't look like there was anything clandestine going on. >> michael, quickly. >> in the collusion inquiry, there is matters that need to be investigated by mueller. the trump tower meeting with don junior on...