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At paul manafort today. we have yet to see the real guts of what paul -- of what robert mueller was originally assigned to investigate, which is what happened with konstantin kilimnik? what happened with wikileaks? we see pieces of this on the edges of these prosecutions, but i think until we see roger stone's trial, presumptively, and what's in the mueller report and any other indictments that may come down before the mueller report, this is an unfinished chapter. >> it's an unfinished chapter. and the question is whether we, the public, will ever be able to finish it. i think mueller certain...

Tom, what does this case involve? >> andrea, this case involves and unsealed, a manhattan grand jury 16 counts of fraud and conspiracy around that. we're still going through the indictment and piecing through it if you will. the district attorney here in new york has purview over manafort's properties in new york and some of his real estate transactions, this investigation -- >> and tom. >> yes. >> tom, let me just interrupt you for just a moment, the manafort defense lawyer has just come to the microphone. let's listen in. >> conceded there was absolutely no evidence of russian collusion in t...

Virginia court or a d.c. court has said anything about their being no collusion. we all just sat in the courtroom and heard judge jackson's pointed comments about the fact this case says nothing about collusion and that the special counsel's investigation is ongoing. so we'll have to see what other statements are given to the media by the defense. >> tom winter, anything else that you are deriving from this grand jury indictment now that you have it all in full, just getting it as we're hearing it from you? >> sure, of course. what we know is this. first off, eight counts of falsifying busines...

I think we'll get some of those answers. if, however, it's the subject of a report that goes to the attorney general that may or may not ever be made public, who knows. i think it's stem cell a serious outstanding question whether we will get answers. the best hope we have is whether the congress of the united states demands those answers from the justice department if they try to sweep them under the rug. that's how we get to know them. it may still be a long time down the road. >> we certainly heard that from adam chiffon morning joe and from the other chairs as well on the house side. they ...

Might go to the collusion question and they did not get it from paul manafort. >> anne marie, the one person they do have other than manafort is rick gates. rick gates testified against ma manafort and his financial crimes. rick gates have been cooperating with the special counsel now for some time ton heart on the hear matter where they are investigating. >> the additional case against manafort does add additional time and pressure on him if he has further information to share it. >> is that the advice you would be giving him if you were still his lawyer? >> it is the one way to cut down on j...