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Of justice by the president and his aids who are deliberately trying to stop the investigation. they know there's something there or they wouldn't be doing it. they know there's someone guilty involved in a conspiracy with russia. the russians know something or have something and that's why they're trying to stop the investigation. and we have to let the investigation go forward to find out the answer to that. >> let me go to ken on that question. do you think they have to show that the trump's people did something we didn't know about it? we know he fired comey and tried to protect flynn. is ...

Lindsey graham came up with a compromise that the white house then blew up which involved daca and parts of the wall. so this is just boondoggle that -- this is something i've been thinking about with regards to trump. you can't pay attention to the way in which he's dealing with facts with regards to the merits of the question. you have to pay attention to the end game. robert hit it right on the head. what he's saying about caravans and our weak laws, none of that bears any resemblance to the facts of the matter. what's interesting is the way in which he's trying to create a moral panicking ...

Would prove that the president and his people did something to help the russians do what they intended to do, in other words, con sird with them in that way and that would be enough? >> yes. sorry, absolutely. if you can prove that there was a relationship where the americans worked with the russians to interfere with the american election, that is clearly an impeachable offense. it's a criminal offense, as well. but as ken said, it is a political question as to what congress also do with that information. >> ken, your thought? >> i think i agree with that. jill made a very important point awh...

The question of how you use military is a bigger question than whether you do. when you bring them in the rifles, what do they do with those rifles? >> it's not just about the confrontation with mexico. there's a political cue lus going on inside of the white house. they know the president is frustrated that he can't get a deal for the border wall. his signature campaign pledge and he's hoping white house officials tell me that by talking about militarizing the border, you can taing to the secretary of defense about putting troops there, that maybe he'll bring the democrats to the table. there...

Directly linked to collusion but the obstruction case is still presented as grounds for impeachment. that is speculative and we're a long way from that. >> so you think it's going to take collusion to bring him down as president? >> i don't know. you know, talking about collusion. there's no crime of collusion. there's conspiracy. we reported a couple weeks ago that mueller plans to indict some of the russians involved in the hacking and leaking. the question is, can he pin any of that on anyone linked to the trump campaign and did donald trump know about it. that's going to be key, chris. >> ...