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Clinton made the competence argument. she and all her great surrogates, president obama, they made the case donald trump was not fit for office and he succeeded in achieving an electoral victory. i wonder how you break through, though. if that is the constant din in this media environment, how do you break through as a party with a message about other topics? >> well, again, it's local. if you are going to look at a specific district that has about 600,000 people in it and i can tell you we've got 7, 8, 9, 10 districts in our great state of california, where you will have, again, people paying...

A good place with this coming into the general election. i think it's going to be very tough to make an ideological case against him. >> on that score, could you see the beginnings of a campaign being framed up in his comments last night, where they are edging a bit away from ideology towards the competence argument, where the president of the united states is a nice guy, but he hasn't done the job for you, i can. >> i think when he stepped over the joke line and delivered it harshly, he is not a natural politician in the way that you saw the president, you know, as he was slow jamming the new...

Chuck four lokos. >> you are or are not? >> i am not. however, he knows how far he can take it and still win, at least the public opinion polls. now, the challenge for him is how do you do that in a way that suits the town hall format? two, how do you do it in a way that allows you to give an affirmative agenda for four years? you talk to any democrat, they say fine, he screwed up the first time. he may not have hurt himself, but he didn't give voters something to attach to. >> and that goes to your point, ben. even ezra klein -- not even ezra klein -- even ezra klein. ezra klein wrote a piece...