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Did to conan o'brien? >> he did a terrible thing to conan o'brien. >> wasn't it just business, really? >> no, it wasn't business at all. did you ever read bill carter's book on it? read that and figure it out for yourself. >> as a professional entertainer, isn't it the rule of the jungle if your ratings aren't doing great -- >> of course. but he had made certain guarantees to conan, saying, this was your show. if i was jay leno, i would have manned up and said, listen, conan, you think you're so good, i'm going to go to fox network or go to abc and i'm going to put my show on and i'm going to ...

Book on it? read that and figure it out for yourself. >> as a professional entertainer, isn't it the rule of the jungle if your ratings aren't doing great -- >> of course. but he had made certain guarantees to conan, saying, this was your show. if i was jay leno, i would have manned up and said, listen, conan, you think you're so good, i'm going to go to fox network or go to abc and i'm going to put my show on and i'm going to kick your ass. that's what a man does. you don't sort of weasel your way back in by saying, i'm going to do 11:30, does cone vn a problem with that? conan said, yeah, i ...