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Health care. so how does this square with the president trying to reach out to democrats in your eyes? >> i think the president wants to get things done, that's kind of who he is. but he does need to work more, i think, with republicans. my friends in the freedom caucus need to realize that if the president's forced to go deal with democrats, it's going to be a much less conservative bill. and what the freedom caucus folks, who are -- the folks who most people believe are stopping this -- want a more conservative bill. so if we have to go to democrats, they're going to lose doubly. and i think...

They are to a come proto poise that's really going to work? >> i think they're a good distance away, and i do believe, as mark was saying, that the president has unique, persuasive powers. but there are 40-odd members of the so-called freedom caucus that have been very reluctant to commit to this bill. and be unless it is sixed in a way that moved -- it is fixed in a way that moves to a more conservative direction, less of an apparent mandate and more cuts, i don't think they're going to support it necessarily e it is passed with a more conservative bill, that will only mean it requires more c...

>> zero evidence for what you're saying. >> thirdly, say that 14 million people in the individual market will not have coverage because won't choose to have it any more. even though have the subsidies, not penalty. that's not losing but choosing. about 5 million people will lose. >> so many things wrong with what you said won't get to all of them. but most importantly this, as political matter republicans are learning that opposition is easy and proposition is very hard. irreconcilable conflict in the congress now. people think they want more conservative bill. believe what you're saying so mu...

Will cover fewer people without the employer mandate. in fact, they're going to cover millions more as they did before the mandate. just a moment. thirdly they say 14 million people in the individual market will not have coverage because they won't choose to have it anymore, even though they'll still have the subsidies, there will be no penalty for not having it. that's not losing coverage, that's choosing not to buy it anymore. so about 5 million people will lose coverage, not 24 million. >> there are so many things with what you said i'm not going to have chance to get to all of them. the mo...

Bill. looks improbable. >> jon: they say it will save $337 billion. you can buy a lot of healthcare with that. >> i would say that -- the house republicans, democrats are saying this is a tax cut. the house republicans love those numbers. internally the real problem that we're seeing down the road here is that there's the house and senate are completely divided. even in the republican leadership. there's divisions. the house freedom caucus is pushing outside consumer groups are pushing the senate to blow up their rules. they say they are hiding behind their own senate rule and overturn the par...