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Pension it is long gone. any money they put in anything that is out of their hands has to become a worry. you are worried that they are not managing it properly. >> i have to say the concern for the companies themselves . i point to the general motors for example. they were the biggest issue when it came to the private pension issue. at the same time many american companies are having the same problem and that hurts the u.s. economy. >> it does and doesn't. both julian and they touched on that companies are changed from a defined benefit plan and means, i am committed to making certain payment...

Sacrisanct as far as i'm concerned. >> shannon: congressman, you also happen to be a medical doctor and you have got experience with medicare and medicaid. what could you make of the criticism of the plan which would turn medicare into it a voucher system where seniors eceptionly then would go on the open market with the voucher and try to get insurance for themselves. is it going to work? >> well, shannon, both you and eliot are describeing that incorrectly. it is not a voucher program. it is a defined contribution plan and premium support plan where seniors would have an opportunity and by t...

Voucher system. if you pay into a private system instead of what we have today. it is radically different. >> talking about a defined contribution plan where you'd have some stake in helping control medicare costs, by the way the only way -- either we put the price control mechanisms in bureaucrats in washington and politicians with artificial cost-cutting or else we put the cost-cutting mechanisms in the hand of people who actually use the government services. so the republican plan trusts people, doctors and patients. the democratic plan trusts washington politicians. i think the american pe...

It's a 401(k) essentially, a defined contribution plan rather than a defined benefit plan. believe me, we have looked at this every which way. but the unions in michigan were partners in identifying ways to cut. they actually, i mean, they bargained hard. don't get me wrong. but they also gave over 700, about $750 million in concessions. they were representing people on the ground who could see where waste was. and so at the bargaining table, we took in their ideas and implemented them and that's why we were able to achieve such great savings. >> governor, do you think the union representative...

He would like to transfer to a defined contribution plan. >> >> he said if they did that you wouldn't need cuts in education. i think it is aç strong argument for him and other governors. >> most amazing thing we learned when governor christie visited us this week in the newark, new jersey school system they are spending $22,000 per student only a quarter of them are graduating. >> paul: money is not a problem in newark. do you think the democratic legislature is going to give ground on this? >> i i think it might happen this time. the teachers union do not have a sympathetic view. i have a ...