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I certainly don't think you can rule it out. and i'm quite surprised by some people who do, because this is about the entire way that putin understands russia. russia in his understanding is a sort of a great power, that comes that has this 1,000 years of history linking back to kyiv and rus. it doesn't make sense if they can't control kyiv. that doesn't have to be literal control. it could be having sort of a pro—russian politician in charge. but essentially they need to be a vassal state. they need to be what he calls a colony because only russia can be sovereign. so i don't think we can r...

Because this is about the entire way that putin understands russia. russia, in his understanding, is a sort of great power, that has this 1,000 years of history linking back to kyiv and rus. it doesn't make sense if they can't control kyiv. that doesn't have to be literal control. it could be having sort of a pro—russian politician in charge. but essentially, they need to be a vassal state. they need to be what he calls a colony because only russia can be sovereign. so i don't think we can rule that out as long as putin or somebody with a similar worldview is in power. so how does this war e...

I mean, you're basically saying there's no real light at the end of the tunnel in the near term. i can't see it and i desperately want to, but i cannot see any light at the end of the tunnel. is there a risk that russia is going to have another go at kyiv, the capital, and try and do a second invasion? i certainly don't think you can rule it out. and i'm quite surprised by some people who do, because this is about the entire way that putin understands russia. russia in his understanding is a sort of a great power, that comes that has this 1,000 years of history linking back to kyiv and rus. it...

And russia or the former soviet union never fired a shot at each other. is this the opportunity where we're going to engage directly against russian forces? i don't think so. so i think what putin understands, with all this calculus, he's not going to invade kyiv, he doesn't want to break kyiv, he doesn't want to control kyiv. if he put rubble in keyyiv, he would have to rebuild it and he doesn't have an economy to do that and he doesn't have the forces necessary to occupy ukraine. that would take close to 800,000 forces. he doesn't have those forces available. so if he's going to invade, it w...

The other map, if we can. if russia invades, kyiv is right here. i do not think putin is going to use the forces and invade kyiv. if he were to create rubble and try to control kyiv, he doesn't want to do that. because he would have to rebuild it. he doesn't have an economy that can accommodate that. also, these forces here would have to go through the chernobyl exclusion zone, the world's worst nuclear disaster back in 1986. i don't know that he wants to push forces through you that nightmare, if you will. but what i think is going to happen, he could take forces located here, increase presen...