The president's attorneys have to assume those are in the hands of the special counsel's office. they should be very worried about that. >> in my lifetime anytime you say the word safe it gets people's attention because it means stuff they don't want out there. elie, what's the difference you tell people between immunity and the president's term, flipping? >> they're sort of different species but similar. if a person doesn't have quite enough criminal provable exposure, so you can't require them to take a plea, they'll invoke the fifth. you can respond to that by giving them immunity. it's sor...