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Or on that phone call, giuliani is a very well-qualified lawyer, his opinions and not the media's opinions. eric: critics would disagree with that, mr. secretary, doesn't fit the narrative that we've heard, it's always been said that, certainly the vice president, former vice president biden, said that one reason that prosecutor was dumped and was fired was because there was a lot of corruption in ukraine, this is what the u.s. and european leaders wanted but he's got this affidavit and quote from the affidavit this morning, from the prosecutor himself and i'm going read it. the prosecutor say...

Father and the ukrainians, it's going to be explored now, by the republicans if nothing else. paul: on the merits, is this -- do you think this is unfair to biden. biden says look, i did nothing wrong, the president tasked me to go over there and make this point. i was trying to clean up corruption. i wasn't trying to interfere with the corruption probe. the prosecutor was a bad guy. we got rid of him. and sure, this is fine for me to do. i mean, so what's the problem? >> well, of course it's a conflict. i mean, i would like to present the notion, imagine if donald trump had got a prosecutor f...

Me. >> in other words, no pressure? paul: that was ukraine's president, vladimir zelensky, saying that nobody pushed him during the july 25th phone call at the center of the whistleblower complaint. let's bring in our panel, dan henninger, kim strassel and senior fellow jason riley. so we're going to get to the politics of all a this. but first, i want to address the merits o of issue and the case against donald trump here and start with the phone call to zelensky, the mention of biden, the request for corruption probe. was this an abuse of power? >> well, let's try to choose our words careful...

Dirt on a political rival. he's defending the move and says he'd be willing to release the transcript of that call. >> is it okay with the ukrainian government releasing their version of the transcript? >> i think their version would be the same as our version. it would be identical. but they did. they put out a major statement last night. in this statement they said it was a very, very fine conversation. and there was no pressure. there was no nothing. there was no pressure. that was not pressure. i know when i give pressure. and that was not pressure. >> well, mr. trump has been pushing wide...

Candidate joe biden and his family. the story goes that the former vice president shielded his son hunter from a corruption probe in ukraine to be clear, there is no evidence of that and the accusations have been widely discredited. we get more now from cnn's jeremy diamond. >> president donald trump is face agent whistle-blower complaint alleging among other things that he pressured the ukrainian president to investigate one of his political visitals, joe biden. all of that happening as the president was withholding military aid to ukraine but none of that stopped the president were shying aw...