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Publicly. does that create more of a legal headache for him? does it add more fuel to the fire for those demanding an impeachment inquiry or does he obfuscate everything saying this is what i'm doing publicly, it is part of my call for corruption around the world. >> i think you fleshed out both strategies exactly. >> tell me which one of those is -- >> it is a fascinating theory of defense, which is oh, you think i committed a crime in secret, i'm doing it out in the open all the time, so that the rest of us, the jury, the public, the media is left thinking, well, wait, how could it possibly ...

Lobbying world wasn't plugged in with this white house. that's what they are saying. there is a certain on message feel to that. and i think that as this investigation continues we are going to see what's behind it all. >> you look skeptical. >> if these companies paid michael cohen for intel in the form of what does he like for breakfast? what is he like after lunch? when is the best time to negotiate with him that drags them out of the realm of the corruption statutes but to the extent that michael cohen may have been selling access or to the extent any federal official was complicit in that...

Serious pardon case on the limits of the pardon power. this could be a constitutional case of great significance. >> if there was this explicit quid pro quo, that would boast the argument this was an attempt to obstruct justice. >> yes, the president's critics would say a prid pro quo is a motive. you're not supposed to offer it tostop an inquiry from going forward. it could be prosecuted under corruption statutes. it doesn't matter what the pardon is is. there are these english law cases saying it's like a sovereign power that dates back to the king and? exercised and not limited in any way. ...