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Defined as calling someone to testify when you have no legitimate investigative purpose. of course mueller has a legitimate investigative purpose to find out the truth of what happened with the potential obstruction of justice. i can understand why trump's lawyers are very concerned about what's happening. there are a lot of protections there. this materiality requirement, the absence of a perjury trap. >> barbara makes a very important point i think. having worked with bob mueller, i can't imagine that he would try to lay a perjury trap. this is a man who plays by the rules. plays by the book...

But press secretary sarah sanders, she said this morning she doesn't know if the attorney general spoke with the president about his interview with mueller's team while at the white house. white house counsel ty cobb has responded to our request for comment, but a session with key interests of the special counsel of meetings he had with the russians sparked him to recuse himself from the russia probe, and of course mueller wants to know what sessions might have known about things surrounding comey's firing. >> for hours he was interviewed by the special counsel's team. we'll have more on this ...

A big indictment is about money laundering. it's about vulnerability and a prosecutor is going to capitalize on just that. if what bannon has to say is true, of course mueller would look into it. >> what does it say to you, carrie, that a grand jury subpoena was issued instead of simply inviting him in for questioning from the fbi and special counsel staff? >> i'm curious about whether or not the subpoena was some kind of surprise to steve bannon and his lawyer or whether this actually was part of a negotiation where steve bannon actually preferred to be subpoenaed, in other words, preferred t...

Department and if that's not speaking softly and carrying a big stick, i don't know what it is. it's of course mueller's going to treat me fairly because there's no collusion. however, i can do anything i want with the justice department. so, i mean, i think -- you know, he's definitely great copy for newspapers, he's great on television. and i think he may not be wrong that, you know, people are going to tune out less when you have this incredible entertainment show. and i think one of the reasons that it's so entertaining is because he changes his mind all the time. and if you look at what h...

Speaking softly and carrying a big stick, i don't know what it is. because it's, of course mueller's going to treat me fairly because there's no collusion. however, i can do anything i want with the justice department. so, i mean, i think -- you know, he's definitely great copy for newspapers, he's great on television. and i think he may not be wrong that, you know, people are going to tune out less when you have this incredible entertainment show. and i think one of the reasons that it's so entertaining is because he changes his mind all the time. and if you look at what he goes through, i me...