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Started believe anothuilding an. they started checking all vehicles going into mexico, not just coming out of mexico of the then eventually a physical wall was built. it's not a wall again, it's a fence. so when you look at what was done and the history, when the border patrol initially put a human wall of agents along the border, our crime dropped significantly. so the local city officials are narrowly looking at the solid structure or the structure that's there, not looking at the steps in the process that occurred to the get to that point. because when it initially started, statistics are v...

Now. >> it was a very different city and it was very much more tense racially between all of the different groups. >> oh, my goodness yes. >> it was just a whole different place. do you ever get the feeling, especially when you're in brooklyn, that's super jent fied and has this super different image, cabs will take you there for one thing, how new york slid from being that racially polarized dynamic to being, if not -- that's not fixed, but at least more self aware and is there an instruction there for the rest of the country? >> that's really interesting. i think one ofhe things honestly is ...

You go back to the era when the laws were put on the books in the first place, you look at where violent crime was then, where it is now, there's been a massive reduction, don't some of these things deserve credit for that? >> absolutely not. and there's a lot of detailed studies that have shown that the drops in crime which we're seeing, not only in the united states, but across globally, in other industrialized countries, that doesn't incarcerate such high levels of their population. america is unique. we're seeing the same drops in crimes as a lot of other countries, but we're also incarcer...

Where we sit. new york city saw the biggest crime drop. it showed you can reduce incarceration and crime at the same time. that's what we have to do. >> now everything is on the upswing because of mayor deblasio's criticisms of the police here. that goes along with what we are talking about. you can't have an anti-police administration and expect the police to be aggressive in doing their jobs, in my opinion. very good debate. thank you both for coming in. appreciate it. next, dr. ben carson's controversial comments on the oregon massacre. and miller has gifts for the republican and democrat...

Dozens of major cities in the united states the crime rate is dramatically up. >> 35 cities are seeing a very big spike in violent crime. the big cities, especially those with urban populations, lock themselves. >> we saw what happened in baltimore. is that we were talking about? >> i'm talking about scary situation when they go to use lawful authority, they are surrounded by increase hostile crowds, many riots breaking out. on a regular basis not covered by the police. officers go to make an arrest people are interfering with their authority taking cellphone cameras in their faces, and as a r...