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Sensible conversation. the uniform crime reports, the nation's official crime sticks from the police that come out of the fbi, they're released so late in the game. ten months after the collection year, 22 months after the first month of the collection year. that they're worthless for dealing with emerging crime problems such as this one. and so we don't even know how extensive crime increases are in the united states. >> or if they're increasing. > what's that? >> or if it's increasing. part of what i have observed is that from the very first moment there has been a rush in some senses it see...

Ten months after the collection year, 22 months after the first month of the collection year. that they're worthless for dealing with emerging crime problems such as this one. and so we don't even know how extensive crime increases are in the united states. >> or if they're increasing. > what's that? >> or if it's increasing. part of what i have observed is that from the very first moment there has been a rush in some senses it seems to me to sort of find a crime increase empty wake of this as if there was a sort of a predestined expectation there would be one. >> right. that's quite possible....

Ten months after the collection year, 22 months after the first month of the collection year. that they're worthless for dealing with emerging crime problems such as this one. and so we don't even know how extensive crime increases are in the united states. >> or if they're increasing. > what's that? >> or if it's increasing. part of what i have observed is that from the very first moment there has been a rush in some senses it seems to me to sort of find a crime increase empty wake of this as if there was a sort of a predestined expectation there would be one. >> right. that's quite possible....

Officer-involved shootings, et cetera. there's also been, i think, increased awareness of police fatalities, these two in the last days. and also, there's been an eye towards crime increases, particularly murders in these big cities. what do you say to people who are going to make the argument, already making the argument that cops are now tentative, because of activists like you and because they're tentative, crime increasing and that blood is on your hands? >> no, not at all. i don't think it's fair at all for people to connect any police murders to black lives matter. but -- and we -- you k...

Kind of started chanting that towards him. it was more playful than anything. so -- >> so that was -- you're saying, that was in a playful context, that chant? >> at that particular demonstration, yes. that was. because -- and the officer was laughing and joking along with the protesters. >> people -- >> and he -- the officer also said, when they started chanting, he said back into the microphone, everybody loves bacon. >> so people have been watching the black lives matter movement unfold. and there are two things that i think have -- black lives matter movement has really raised awareness of...