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>> laura: you knew the informant. tell me about him. >> stephen helper. they forgot history. he was in 1980, he was doing spying for the reagan administration and getting documents from the d.n.c. on foreign policy and he was handing over them to the bureau as an informant. now 30 years later it's happening again. >> laura: long career. >> exactly! here is the other thing, laura. you need to know the guidelines say if you are going to use an informant to infiltrate a political organization, you need a clear criminal predicate. national security is not a criminal predicate. >> laura: bingo. tha...

Tell me about him. >> stephen helper. they forgot history. he was in 1980, he was doing spying for the reagan administration and getting documents from the d.n.c. on foreign policy and he was handing over them to the bureau as an informant. now 30 years later it's happening again. >> laura: long career. >> exactly! here is the other thing, laura. you need to know the guidelines say if you are going to use an informant to infiltrate a political organization, you need a clear criminal predicate. national security is not a criminal predicate. >> laura: bingo. that is the critical question. we hav...

Surveillance, by search warrants. to get a search warrant from a federal judge on the criminal side, you have to talk about a criminal act that is taking place. a criminal predicate. on the national security side, you have to talk about the threat to national security and talk about why it will be affected negatively in both cases, without these extraordinary measures. i think it is far-fetched, i will be corrected if i am wrong, to see what kind of predicate they could have possibly had in this case. >> tucker: if it turns out that this is really all about a payment to a star, but to be hones...

So he will push. at that point trump says, no, my lawyers have told you what they're going to say. take it or leave it. what's mueller's option, subpoena. what's trump's option? he could cave or he more likely will say no, i'm not going to seed to the subpoena. we'll take it to court. he doesn't have to fire mueller. but what he is doing is laying the ground work to delegitimize mueller and resist a mueller subpoena. and that puts this into the realm of the courts to slug it out. does, you know, mueller have the adequate criminal predicate to prevail. ultimately it goes to the supreme court wh...

They're going to say. take it or leave it. what's mueller's option, subpoena. what's trump's option? he could cave or he more likely will say no, i'm not going to seed to the subpoena. we'll take it to court. he doesn't have to fire mueller. but what he is doing is laying the ground work to delegitimize mueller and resist a mueller subpoena. and that puts this into the realm of the courts to slug it out. does, you know, mueller have the adequate criminal predicate to prevail. ultimately it goes to the supreme court where trump figures he has the upper hand. so he doesn't have to fire mueller t...