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>> that's true, we've just never seen this much of it or a president who abuses the truth the way he does. >> i don't know about that. >> i think ray is on the same thing of mirrors and missing the issues. the issue is not lying under oath. it's lying to the american people. a very serious felony. you just heard kellyanne conway say, people, election experts agree this wasn't a felony. and stuff like that. absolutely preposterous. >> no, i don't -- i don't agree with that. >> let me finish. tomorrow i have an editorial coming out with a republican former chair of the fec. in the "washington po...

Us in april. i have no idea why we should bring him now. the criminal process will unfold. i think the impeachment process will unfold. time will tell what happened. if i were a lawyer -- >> what they can corroborate. by saying, well, you know, he's lied before. all right. fair enough. but he had his statements in this regard corroborated by the prosecutors as with the mueller probe and what he told them about russia. they said, with respect to this, from the second meeting on, he's told the truth. and the president needs to show the same kind of corroboration to be believed. he can't be just ...

That a sitting president cannot be indicted. there were different policy reasons given and the overarching constitutionality of it would be simply said if he does something that bad, you're going to impeach him anyway and then can you have this type of criminal process. we don't want to have something akin to political payback. you say it isn't that clear. >> it is that clear. that's not binding, that's the opinion of a particular justice department. the framers were very careful. they did not want bills of attender. they said someone who is impeached and removed from office cannot be punished...

Situation and once again in 2000, both during republican administrations put out guidance for prosecutors at the d.o.j. that a sitting president cannot be indicted. there were different policy reasons given and the overarching constitutionality of it would be simply said if he does something that bad, you're going to impeach him anyway and then you can have this type of criminal process. we don't want to have something akin to political payback. you say it isn't that clear. >> it is that clear. there are a lot of opinions of legal counsel. that's not binding, that's the opinion of a particular...

History of this country. >> in fact, there is no law saying the president cannot be subjected to criminal process, as president nixon painfully discovered before he decided to resign the presidency and accept a pardon from his former vice president after he resigned. that's how president nixon avoided criminal process, by resigning the presidency and getting a pardon that prevented any criminal process from closing in on richard nixon. ru rudy giuliani said the president would submit if the special prosecutor's team revealed all the evidence they have against the president. that is the same th...