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>> what is your sense where we would have gone, we went with 500,000 troops as the complement of troops, subsequent beginning in 65, do you think kennedy would have escalated the way johnson did, made this in an american war. >> i absolutely do not. the evidence is i think growing all the time that john f. kennedy would not have been suckered into viet nam the way lyndon johnson was. i say that make i had written the biography of james forrestal, i used to interview mike. john f. kennedy wanted to plan how to get out of there. there was a feeling it was a lost cause, kennedy gave a world peace...

Wanted to in many ways help cripple johnson's presidency. >> i mean, kennedy had these weird -- he laughed at them as kind of a river boat gambler and called them landslide because h gambler, called him "landslide" he won by 87 votes. used to kid him about a dishonest election. felt uncomfortable being in his presence. he didn't like being in the same room as lyndon johnson. let's go to something important to history, the viet nam war. a new tape came out november 20, just released, november 20, 1963 two days before the assassination. kennedy had his eye on viet nam. two days before he got kil...

Entry of u.s. troops, certainly the use of u.s. firepower, he always knew the issue was nationalism and all the more troops we could put in there would simply increase their nationalism. they would resent us even more the more troops we put in. and that turned out to be the case. >> completely agree. and also keep in mind in connection to our previous -- the comments we had. there was such a thing as you know of new frontiersman. there was something different about jack and bobby kennedy's relationship to the military than, say, lyndon johnson. and, you know, a lot of people were loyal to the ...

He said he felt uncomfortable being in his presence. he didn't like being in the same room as lyndon johnson. let's go to something really important in history. that is the vietnam war. a new tape that came out november 20 just released,1963. just two days before the assassination. kennedy had his eye on the situation in vietnam that fall. here is just, as i said, just two days before he got killed, talking about what he was going to follow up with south vietnam. let's listen. >> they were going to have a briefing book for me by saturday. i think i ought to be back here till maybe seven. then ...

Kennedy. i know he picked johnson for his own needs to win texas and other southern states. they were never buddies before. probably never buddies again. but what is your thinking about the real sentiments involved? >> there was no relationship there by 1963. you know, bobby kennedy lived to loathe lyndon johnson as did ted kennedy and the kennedy family. there was always the feeling that johnson's presidency wasn't real, that it was really just a co-op of kennedy policies and the proof in the pudding that bobby kennedy geared up to run in 1968 over vietnam and wanted to in many ways help crip...