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What president trump was interested in why did he never bring that up in the call? he brought up crowd strike, a conspiracy theory and brought up the bidens. so there is no evidence that the president actually was -- was holding up the money because of corruption. i think we have now have more information from omb showing how disturbed they were about it. >> dave gergen it's interesting next week the house judiciary committee holding public hearings what constitutes an impeachable offense. and by the rules the president can go and send his lawyers to take part in the hearings and can ask quest...

He was briefed on it. they were briefed on it. he says, no, i think it happened. how is that not all by itself a potential abuse of power? if you are so incompetent that all these people telling you something that isn't true except putin, and you believe putin? >> well, chris, i can tell you that i believe the president would like to see proof that crowdstrike -- >> he has the proof. >> nobody's seen it. i understand the fbi says they have it, but they've showed nobody. >> they can't give him proof that crowdstrike didn't take the server when a server wasn't taken. the dnc says no server was t...

People and entities. >> chris, i understand what you're saying, but crowdstrike's proof has not been made public. that's a fact. >> but that's different than the president not knowing it. i'm out of time but i got to ask you one other time. i have to ask this. i'm sorry if it makes you uncomfortable. you and i, i believe, share a theory. roger stone is too smart a guy to not know that they were going to get his communications. this is a savvy guy. it's a little different when you're in the crosshairs, but he knows the game. for him to play the game out the way he did, to me, suggests taking on...

A lengthy interview. during that interview he pushed this theory on ukraine again. >> president trump: a lot of it had to do they say with ukraine. very interesting it's very interesting. they have the server, right, from the dnc, democratic national committee. the f.b.i. went in and told them get out of here, we're not giving it to you. they gave the server to crowd strike or whatever it's called, a company owned by a very wealthy ukrainian. and i still want to see that server. the f.b.i. has never gotten that server. that's a big part of this whole thing. why did they give it to a ukrainian ...

What they told you about russian interference. >> well, back in 2016, it was pretty clear from the forensics, as you said, jim, that russian actors were to blame. two groups. fancy bear and cozy bear, really well-known to the cyber community had left their digital fingerprints all over the hack at the dnc. now crowdstrike was familiar to me, and many who cover the industry, because the founders who trump has said the company is own by a wealthy ukrainian. there's no truth to that. it was founded by three american citizens, all who came from mcafee. one of them was born in moscow and now lives ...