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Balance. >> let's say a pardon were to happen before the november midterms. if the republicans in control of congress decide to do anything, is there anything that democrats in congress could do at that point? >> special counsel mueller would take that into consideration if he believes that the president is doing it to obstruct justice. in other words if he's doing it because he doesn't want paul manafort to plead guilty and start cooperating with prosecutors. it would depend on what the special counsel believes the president's intent was in pardoning paul manafort. >> your party could take ba...

You don't have to get past all possib possible doubt, but you do have to get past the reasonable doubt. that was something the defense had harped on in their closing. it does go to show that this case might not be a slam dunk. the jury did say to the judge we will be back tomorrow for more deliberation here. >> what does all of this tell us about the deliberations and the potential verdict? should we read between the lines here? >> reporter: you could read between the lines. first off, it tells that you say the jury really is working painstakingly, going count by count for all 18 counts, point...

Revoke my security clearance. i think he's sending a message that whenever you speak up against this president and take this stand, it's not about politics, it's about defending the united states, because that has been what his career has been about. >> that's the point, the speaking up point. so much of the concern that people expressed was that the president, by doing what he did, what was announced yesterday in revoking the security clearance of brennan and putting out this list of others in consideration, is to try to chill this notion of speaking up against the president brennan coming ou...

Defiance. >> it was a message to the government and to appear african americans. >> absolutely. >> that the gains you believe you've made are not real and we are going to commemorate the time before those gains and the time after those gains. is that how you see it. >> that's how i see it. and to p point out even more this act of defiance, when the confederate battle flag was taken down off the state capitol, it was removed from the capitol, but 20 miles right outside the state capitol along interstate 65 is a giant confederate battle flag that sits there. and it's an act of defiance. it's an ...

But on everything else as well. i think it's a problem that senators know it's a problem. mccain says you're a stupid idiot if you vote for this, but he's going to vote for it. that's a hard one to wrap your mind around. >> it's a hard one, but what he's saying there's no other way for us to get judge gorsuch approved. there are days democrats and republicans used to meet to figure out a way to get filibuster proof margins for big pieces of legislation. my quo is now that you've done it for the supreme court, are you going to start doing it on legislation and is this the slippery slope that le...