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It was watching foreign people, our allies, our enemies, whatever, wealthy people come to d.c. and spend their money there. it was legal bribery, except it wasn't legal. and, so, you know, i think we're starting to get a sense of how large this investigation is, how much he is liable for and i look forward to it continuing. and i look forward to learning more. and i look forward to listening to the learned lawyers you have with us because they're the ones who can tell us what's really going on. >> well, me too. that takes us right no rebecca. you know what most of us don't, which is how these ...

Country like bob mueller was. gary fishman, i should say. known for tenacity in legal circles. prosecuting a $100 million mort-fraud case in 2009. his strong suit was strategically thinking and how best to use cooperaing and hostile witnesses. what the journal is reminding us is that in a case like this, it is not just, oh, the numbers don't match and you're done. there is a whole cadre of people. some may have beef with trump. others trying to stay loyal to him. and the prosecutors will have to deal with all those people. >> right. and know how to bring them along even if they don't want to b...

Cautious about is there are a lot of shady things that are not crimes, and then there are a lot of crimes that are really hard to fix. so right now they will look at the evidence and put it before the grand jury in such a way that it establishes whatever crimes they are looking for. it is really hard to know at this point what those are. but i agree that especially that d.c. property has become symbolic of opulence and grift for trump critics. whether that's criminal or not, it just remains to be seen. >> uh-huh. i appreciate the measured approach you are taking. that's part of why we talk to ...

I don't know. it could be an independent investigation. but ask yourself. why is the eastern district involved in an investigation of the ukrainians? how did it start in the eastern district? an informant? and the parallel is we have on the state level the d.a. and the a.g. and they're cooperating. there is a combination of resources. they probably drew a line between the state and federal investigation for a variety of reasons. but it strikes me that everybody is getting up to ramming speed. you know, the federal haven't been doing anything. also realize this. in 2019 when rudy is having thes...