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Thought they were. so, there's all kinds of things you can do to manipulate once you have the targets and once they're identified and you have the rich data that kevin talks about. the problem, though, is it goes well beyond that. you could have the campaign's entire forward-looking schedule, knowing where someone like hillary clinton is going, weeks in advance and be able to, you know, just start discerning the electorate strategy and things like that that a campaign is trying to keep close to the vest. that's just the beginning of it with the data manipulation. >> just to joe's points, don, ...

Knowing where someone like hillary clinton is going, weeks in advance and be able to, you know, just start discerning the electorate strategy and things like that that a campaign is trying to keep close to the vest. that's just the beginning of it with the data manipulation. >> just to joe's points, don, campaign analytics is how you're messages and how you're tailoring a message to a particular demographic. and a particular state. and the deployment of resources. where you're spending money on ads and who you're targeting in the ads and the deployment of the candidate. where you're going to s...

Using big data. so there's that. and there is the russia hack kind of things which are basically using this for information warfare or have they been successful in the registration systems in illinois and arizona, data manipulation. >> this is like apocalyptic stuff if you ask me. sit hardz to focus on because i think it seems so big and so hard to put your arms around. the trump administration has, though, been more aggressively trying to tackle it. so what are they doing? >> they have done a few things and then there are a few things that are a mist relative to us. they began to name and s...

You remember the leaked e-mails about angelina jolie. the real import was it melted down 70% of sony's computing systems. they had to go write their paychecks sort of by hand that week. that's one end. there is data manipulation. >> is there chaos at our banks? >> it's interesting. we have never seen a single piece of data from the big hack of the office of personnel management show up in a way that would, you know, defraud your bank account or take money out of your checking account. they wanted to compile a huge database of basically 20 or 30 million americans who have security clearances,...

Through the russian embassy here in the united states that were flagged by its bank. then you have, you know, when we talk about the hacking of the election, we actually mean a couple of different things. the second bucket here are the information operations. the twitter, facebook, bots, trolls sort of the data manipulation and targeting that went on across the united states. the third set is this active cyber intrusions, which includes, you know, the hacking of the dnc, the hacking of john podesta's e-mail, the attempted penetrations of state-level election services and secretaries of state. ...